Intro: Up next on episode 59 of StackOverflow Joel and Jeff sit down with Damien Katz to discuss unconventional databases, unconventional programming languages and taking on unconventional programming projects.
Atwood: Unless someone drops the F-Bomb or something crazy.
Spolsky: Right, alright.
Atwood: <laughs>, so should we introduce our guest, Damien Katz...
Spolsky: I think we should.
Atwood: ...of CouchDB fame?
Atwood: Yeah (Laughs).
Atwood: So thanks for agreeing to be on the show and we should give a little bit of a background about Damien. And actually one of the reasons... I've known Damian, well known is a very loose term, but I sort of discovered his blog like a long time ago, gosh, like a 2005. When did you start your big advanture [incomplete]? What was the timeline for that?
Katz: I think it was around 2005. I think it was 2004 when we decided. I think it was 2005 when we actually moved to Charllete.
Atwood: Yeah. So I [incomplete] nearly the beginning of your journey. And at first, let me tell you, I was really angry with you. Because this was... At the time I was reading your blog I was in a job where I had to work with Lotus Notes every day because it was email system. So I found as, oh yeah, I found this developer, I hate this guy, I hate this guy. He worked on Lotus Notes. [incomplete]. But then I felt bad because you actually are a nice guy and kind of interesting blogger so I grew to love you. I think it's what happened.
Katz: I get that a lot about, you know, people with their dislike of Lotus Notes so... I'm always kind of nervous, you know, about that...say...well you know it's... Well I don't want to dump on it because I work hard on it and a lot of people work really hard on it and it is the way it is for a reason but else we know it's also in kind of a big bloated mess and I understand your frustrations.
Spolsky: I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Lotus Notes rocked for its era and if the reason people hated it, is because they were forced to [incomplete] things that they couldn't do because they were sold at the enterprise level with all kinds of, you know, Lotus sells people.
Katz: Yeah, and like you could open an alert box and that was like wow. [incomplete]
Spolsky: And it sort looked like a toy language to so many that it didn't get...you know. It has started as a sort of, I guess, a Sheme implementation.
Atwood: Yeah, that's something I learned from a podcast was that the guy who created it was like a Scheme guru or somehting.
Katz: Yeah, I didn't know that.
Spolsky: It's got the functional programming, it's got the lambdas, it's got some nice stuff in there.
Atwood: You know, it's funny you said you didn't know SQL either. [incomplete]
Atwood: ... What a great book Code Complete is. In your presentation you said at one point you have analysis paralysis - where you're working on your own thing, there's nobody telling you what to do, and you reach a decision point where you're like "I can't decide what I should be doing or how I'm supposed to be doing this" - there's noone telling me what to do anymore and it's kindof like you don't know what direction to go in, and I believe the slide title was, "Panic," and your solution was to buy a copy of Code Complete. And I'm just imaginging the smoothing, calming voice of Steve McConnell ...