Revision Diff: Podcast 040

Podcast 040 Revision #10, 2/5/2009 1:54 PM 92.4.98.145 Tags: (None) Previous Next	Podcast 040 Revision #13, 2/6/2009 6:56 PM 207.161.18.144: "Added Lopp between 18:30 & 19:10" Tags: (None) Previous Next
[incomplete] Intro, advertising [01:00] Spolsky: It's just like you're playing with your AM radio and you just tuned in on a station and it was in the middle of something Lopp: That's awesome. Spolsky: That's the illusion we're trying to create. We had an anemone die today. Lopp: An anemone ? Spolsky:Yep Lopp: What color was it, are they all brown or green or what's the deal ? Spolsky: I don't know it was like multi-colored, they're like brown green, they've got little tentacles Lopp: Does an anemone float when it dies, or is it just sad and on the bottom ? Spolsky: I don't know, I found out about it via email. I havent yet. But yesterday it was looking really sick. [01:32] [17.20] Atwood: The only thought I had there was that a lot of the times my concept of leadership as a developer is a) it's hard to scale it to a really large group and I'm kind of curious how big are the groups you're managing, it sounds like they're pretty sizable ? Lopp: I moved into the senior management role which is a managing managers which is a whole other ball of wax, so yeah that what's the next book is going to be called Spolsky: Managing documents Atwood: It's going to be called: "I'm screwed" Lopp: But it's fascinating because its totally, it's more like management than engineering is like management but it's a very different role, whereas anywhere we won't go there. So the teams are anywhere from, I actually have a magic number of about 7 where I feel like that's sort of the point that you can get it all done and over that, you know, given that the team is sort of normal. Over 7 or so it just turns into, it's just too many people and people aren't getting the attention that they need to kind of grow and do that so. [18.21]	[incomplete] Intro, advertising [01:00] Spolsky: It's just like you're playing with your AM radio and you just tuned in on a station and it was in the middle of something Lopp: That's awesome. Spolsky: That's the illusion we're trying to create. We had an anemone die today. Lopp: An anemone ? Spolsky:Yep Lopp: What color was it, are they all brown or green or what's the deal ? Spolsky: I don't know it was like multi-colored, they're like brown green, they've got little tentacles Lopp: Does an anemone float when it dies, or is it just sad and on the bottom ? Spolsky: I don't know, I found out about it via email. I havent yet. But yesterday it was looking really sick. Our aquarium is a source of much sadness and stress. People that visit our office, they only get the "Oh cool, its like, pretty fish", they don't have to live with...they don't have to stay up with the sea horses when they get a cold. [01:50] [17.20] Atwood: The only thought I had there was that a lot of the times my concept of leadership as a developer is a) it's hard to scale it to a really large group and I'm kind of curious how big are the groups you're managing, it sounds like they're pretty sizable ? Lopp: I moved into the senior management role which is a managing managers which is a whole other ball of wax, so yeah that what's the next book is going to be called Spolsky: Managing documents Atwood: It's going to be called: "I'm screwed" Lopp: But it's fascinating because its totally, it's more like management than engineering is like management but it's a very different role, whereas, anyway we won't go there. So the teams are anywhere from, I actually have a magic number of about 7 where I feel like that's sort of the point that you can get it all done and over that, you know, given that the team is sort of normal. Over 7 or so it just turns into, it's just too many people and people aren't getting the attention that they need to kind of grow and do that so. Spolsky: I used to wish that you could have larger teams than that where people sort of self-manage in a way. I think I might have been being naive. Lopp: I don't know, in this 7 there are all those personalities you were just describing in terms of all those chapters and whatnot some of them need a lot of attention and some are self managing, but again at that 7 number around there, it gets to be too many. And whenever I inherit a team that's like, "How many people do you have?", "I have 10." I am like, "How is it not working?" and the answer is almost always, "I'm not talking to so-and-so, or this person is about to quit and you can go back to, it's this weeding thing again, people need daily attention, not that their needy, but it's just that's part of who they are as humans, that they want to be touched, that's getting a little weird there, but they need to have that constant, not constant, they need to have consistant attention. I think is the right word. [19:10]

[incomplete]

Intro, advertising

[01:00]

Spolsky: It's just like you're playing with your AM radio and you just tuned in on a station and it was in the middle of something

Lopp: That's awesome.

Spolsky: That's the illusion we're trying to create. We had an anemone die today.

Lopp: An anemone ?

Spolsky:Yep

Lopp: What color was it, are they all brown or green or what's the deal ?

Spolsky: I don't know it was like multi-colored, they're like brown green, they've got little tentacles

Lopp: Does an anemone float when it dies, or is it just sad and on the bottom ?

Spolsky: I don't know, I found out about it via email. I havent yet. But yesterday it was looking really sick.

[01:32]

[17.20]

Atwood: The only thought I had there was that a lot of the times my concept of leadership as a developer is a) it's hard to scale it to a really large group and I'm kind of curious how big are the groups you're managing, it sounds like they're pretty sizable ?

Lopp: I moved into the senior management role which is a managing managers which is a whole other ball of wax, so yeah that what's the next book is going to be called

Spolsky: Managing documents

Atwood: It's going to be called: "I'm screwed"

Lopp: But it's fascinating because its totally, it's more like management than engineering is like management but it's a very different role, whereas anywhere we won't go there. So the teams are anywhere from, I actually have a magic number of about 7 where I feel like that's sort of the point that you can get it all done and over that, you know, given that the team is sort of normal. Over 7 or so it just turns into, it's just too many people and people aren't getting the attention that they need to kind of grow and do that so.

[18.21]

[incomplete]

Intro, advertising

[01:00]

Spolsky: It's just like you're playing with your AM radio and you just tuned in on a station and it was in the middle of something

Lopp: That's awesome.

Spolsky: That's the illusion we're trying to create. We had an anemone die today.

Lopp: An anemone ?

Spolsky:Yep

Lopp: What color was it, are they all brown or green or what's the deal ?

Spolsky: I don't know it was like multi-colored, they're like brown green, they've got little tentacles

Lopp: Does an anemone float when it dies, or is it just sad and on the bottom ?

Spolsky: I don't know, I found out about it via email. I havent yet. But yesterday it was looking really sick. Our aquarium is a source of much sadness and stress. People that visit our office, they only get the "Oh cool, its like, pretty fish", they don't have to live with...they don't have to stay up with the sea horses when they get a cold.

[01:50]

[17.20]

Atwood: The only thought I had there was that a lot of the times my concept of leadership as a developer is a) it's hard to scale it to a really large group and I'm kind of curious how big are the groups you're managing, it sounds like they're pretty sizable ?

Lopp: I moved into the senior management role which is a managing managers which is a whole other ball of wax, so yeah that what's the next book is going to be called

Spolsky: Managing documents

Atwood: It's going to be called: "I'm screwed"

Lopp: But it's fascinating because its totally, it's more like management than engineering is like management but it's a very different role, whereas, anyway we won't go there. So the teams are anywhere from, I actually have a magic number of about 7 where I feel like that's sort of the point that you can get it all done and over that, you know, given that the team is sort of normal. Over 7 or so it just turns into, it's just too many people and people aren't getting the attention that they need to kind of grow and do that so.

Spolsky: I used to wish that you could have larger teams than that where people sort of self-manage in a way. I think I might have been being naive.

Lopp: I don't know, in this 7 there are all those personalities you were just describing in terms of all those chapters and whatnot some of them need a lot of attention and some are self managing, but again at that 7 number around there, it gets to be too many. And whenever I inherit a team that's like, "How many people do you have?", "I have 10." I am like, "How is it not working?" and the answer is almost always, "I'm not talking to so-and-so, or this person is about to quit and you can go back to, it's this weeding thing again, people need daily attention, not that their needy, but it's just that's part of who they are as humans, that they want to be touched, that's getting a little weird there, but they need to have that constant, not constant, they need to have consistant attention. I think is the right word.

[19:10]