View  Info
 
Compare   Restore  
   Revision #7 - 5/31/2009 9:36 AM     

Podcast #055

[incomplete]

Intro, advertising

[01:20]

Spolsky: Alright let's get on with the podcast. Let's start with attendance, somebody thought that was very funny when we did that last week.

Atwood: <laughs>, I'm glad someone thought it was funny.

Spolsky: So I think we should do it every week now, <laughs>, Jeff...

Atwood: Present.

Spolsky: And Joel present, good.

Atwood: Present, check, you have to check.

Spolsky: Check.

Atwood: Check, yes check <laughs>. A little Flight of the Conchords reference for anyone who doesn't know.

Spolsky: Of course. That show's great, and I think they're done, they're not making any more, or are they ?

Atwood: What ever ?

Spolsky: Huh ?

Atwood: Well they were in concert last night in San Francsico I know that.

Spolsky: Cool, well I think they were tired with having to come up with a whole song for every show.

Atwood: Hmm, I hadn't heard that.

Spolsky : Because they'd used up all their songs on the first season, and then they did a second season and it was just exhausting for them to come up with like a new song for every single show. It would be like doing a podcast every week or a blog post.

Atwood: <laughs>

[02:14]

Atwood: The only difference is that we don't actually come up with anything interesting <laughs>

Spolsky: <laughs>

Atwood: I'm sorry listeners; I'm really, really sorry.

Spolsky: This is as good as it's going to get, so if you think it's getting any better than this, just hit that fast-forward button on your podcast thing and go on to Adam Corolla talking about his childhood show.

Atwood: Exactly. So I do have one important bit of Stack Overflow news.

Spolsky: Oh good

Atwood: We are going to launch the Server Fault site tonight.

Spolsky: Woo!

Atwood: I was going to launch it Monday, because I sort of picked a random day on the calendar and - this is a classic geek thing to do, by the way - "So let's just go and launch it this Monday"

Spolsky: Yeah

Atwood: And that happened to be, of course, Memorial Day. I realized as that day got closer; I was like, "Oh right, that's a holiday." <laughs>

Spolsky: Right

Atwood: We probably don't want to launch a site that most people use from work, based on our traffic patterns, on a holiday. That would probably be a bad idea. So I went ahead and moved it to, basically, midnight tonight. So essentially tomorrow. So Server Fault should [go] public.

Spolsky: Yeah

Atwood: Yeah, it's been super fun - Server Fault's been doing great and, you know, I'm happy with the moderators who brought online - there's been a lot of emails; have been sending back and forth about how we're looking at things and how... trying to establish how we do things and what we're doing and things like that, so I want to get that formalized as well also. I'm really pretty happy with the site and I think the only complaint people have is they want more users.

Spolsky: Right, because they're more likely to get answers

Atwood: Well exactly.

[3:37]

...

[59:00]

Spolsky: ...and you should become, and know it's working because you should become a programmer like the rest of us which is perpetually cowering in fear, shivering in the corner of the room, hoping that the bad man doesn't come back. <laughs>

Atwood: Is that one of the comments?

Spolsky: No, that's just like what the rest of our programmers are like. "Nothing can ever possibly work." You can write some code...

Atwood: <laughing> "Nothing can ever possibly work." That's Joel's programming motto. That's inspirational!

Spolsky: No code that you write can possibly work.  That's the level of humbleness it takes. I have... have you ever written code and had it work the first time? I mean, it gets to the point where you are just suprised that it even appears to be working and you haven't yet found the bugs.

Atwood: Well when it appears to run then I know that there's some secret thing wrong with it so that's even worse. When it runs the first time. It's like then you're more afraid.

Spolsky: Like I say you have to be shivering, naked in the corner of the room, in the foetal position crying "make it stop, make it stop".

Atwood: This is a really great thread. This is a fine case for discussion questions that are actually on topic and add to Stack Overflow because there's some really brilliant responses in here that are really, really helpful. So I encourage everybody to look at that.  And of course my watershed moment was "Code Complete" - you know finding Code Complete - so you can always throw a copy of Code Complete at them if they're in a place where they'll actually read it and not just let it bounce off their head.

Spolsky: Yeah, that is a good book. I always feel like it sort of, it's got some great stuff. Do you think that "Code Complete" needs to be updated a little bit?

Atwood: Well it was updated in 2004.

Spolsky: Oh it was?

Atwood: That was basically 10 years, so I would say it's reasonably up to date.

Spolsky: Ok, Ok.

Atwood: You know there's a few parts there that I don't agree with, obviously, but I think that's true of any book, like the Bible for example.

Spolsky: Sure it's got... just tear out "Leviticus" and you're good to go.

Atwood: <laughs> Exactly. But I think the two things that would help, what I reccomend is, one if they're in a place where they will accept Code Complete and will actually read and take it to heart because there's some really cool stuff in there for... even if you think you're a badass there's stuff in there that will help you.

And then two just being around other programmers who have more experience. As a young programmer who thought I knew everything I was lucky to get in with another guy who had been through a lot more failure cycles than I had and he would sort of shake his head and say "you don't understand how this stuff works" and he was right I didn't.  If you're around a bunch of other young programmers that all think they know everything you're screwed. That's my point. Try to get into the company where you can learn from the people you're working with that actually have some level of experience above your's.

Spolsky: This is one of the problems with... Like I started a company with the bunch of my friends from school right after we graduated and it just becomes a children's crusade.

Atwood: Yeah. I agree. You've got to mixed it up, you've got to have some people there that have experience in different things and some different breaths of experience as programmers to have a really good team.
[1:01:55]

...

[1:05:26]

Spolsky: There's a wiki! Every week... that people use to type in transcripts for all or part of the show. So if there's something you heard that you like, and you would like to contribute to humanity and to the hearing impaired by writing up the transcript, that happens at the Transcript Wiki which we'll link to from the show notes at blog.stackoverflow.com, or you can go directly there by going to stackoverflow.fogbugz.com. I don't know how I remember any of this. See you next week!

Atwood: See you next week.

[65:52 ends]

Outro, advertising

[67:09]

Last Modified: 10/5/2009 3:03 PM

You can subscribe to this wiki article using an RSS feed reader.